I'm not sure I can really claim this fleet as my own, since I am stealing all of ziotoo4's best ideas for it. The primary combo of Raptor Maw/Behemoth/Lord Mycron is from ziotoo4's IBDB "endless move" fleet:
NOTE: Per the latest FAQ, this combo is no longer legal. Woelf has ruled that you cannot use Lord Mycron's ability on the same ship more than once. A "second" second action does not give you a third action. Thus, you cannot give three actions to Raptor Maw with Lord Mycron and with Behemoth copying Lord Mycron.
Two actions is fine, though, and a Sea Dragon that can Move + Shoot or Swoop + Move isn't a bad combo, so for the moment I'm leaving this fleet as-is. I may revise it later.
I am combining this with ziotoo4's other love, submarines. Fortunately, the Cursed have two, and also a pair of Brother Virgilish crew to go with them, Tabatha McWarren and Cavendish. This allows me to keep Lord Mycron on the Pyre with a canceler, an incredibly hard ship to sink. And there's just enough room on the Locker for another British canceler and a 5-point Marine.
Favor of the Gods is there to get rid of Mermaids, which could shut down one of the subs for three turns. I added Squalo as a whim... I had 9 points left over, and I'm not sure he'd get much use, but he can stay submerged and use Fear to mess with enemy ships.
Against any standard ship, Lord Mycron and Behemoth (copying Mycron) can give Raptor Maw three actions: move next to any ship, shoot + eliminate a crew, then move to some spot where nobody can touch him.
If a ship is immune to normal shoot actions (submarines, can't be shot within S, etc.) or has that pesky Eternal keyword, then I can send the Locker in first with three move actions (Lord Mycron and Behemoth again), shoot with Sharpe, and on the next turn cancel with Bratley and do the whole move/shoot/move thing with Raptor Maw.
Defensively, everything except Raptor Maw will spend almost all their time submerged. To get them to surface, an opponent would have to overcome two, possibly even three or more cancel abilities: Behemoth can copy Lawrence/Bratley, and Squalo might get lucky on his Fear roll.
Offensively, this isn't all that impressive of a fleet. It can eliminate two or three masts a turn at best. In a Grand Melee, it would be a very slow victory... but unless you can pin down Raptor Maw, I'm not sure how it could be defeated. The submarines and sea monsters will be difficult to get at, and Raptor Maw may pick away only a couple of masts every turn, but he should eventually sink everything on the board.
The only real problem I can see would be two or more players working together. Multiple Mermaids could shut down Lord Mycron for a bit (but not Behemoth). Several players could also combine their cancelers to overcome Lawrence/Bratley (cancelers work on *every* turn, including opponents' turns), possibly bringing the Pyre up to the surface where a crew-killer could get at Lord Mycron. Another problem would be another Sea Dragon/Lord Mycron combo, in which case the first dragon to attack most likely wins.
This is a great fleet, and it still might be very effective, but Woelf ruled against copying Lord Mycron's ability (or using two applications of Lord Mycron's ability from two different ships in the same turn) being able to give the same ship two extra actions that turn. You could give two different ships two actions each, but not one ship three actions. He states his ruling pretty clearly in the Lord Mycron section of the FAQ, but if you'd like to see the thread in the forum that lead to the ruling I'll PM it to you.
As far as I'm concerned there's still plenty of time to change your fleet if you'd like to go with a new strategy in light of Woelf's ruling.
This is a great fleet, and it still might be very effective, but Woelf ruled against copying Lord Mycron's ability (or using two applications of Lord Mycron's ability from two different ships in the same turn) being able to give the same ship two extra actions that turn. You could give two different ships two actions each, but not one ship three actions. He states his ruling pretty clearly in the Lord Mycron section of the FAQ, but if you'd like to see the thread in the forum that lead to the ruling I'll PM it to you.
Hmmm. I wasn't aware of such a ruling. When I asked him about Lord Mycron a couple months ago via email, he quite clearly told me that multiple "second action" abilities *did* stack.
However, given what you can do with a Sea Dragon, I understand why he might change his mind. I'll check the latest FAQ later when I get home.
I guess Seleucis + Behemoth (copying Raptor Maw) + Lord Mycron might still work, although I seem to recall something about sea monsters not being able to fly. Unfortunately, Seleucis wouldn't work in this fleet, since it's part of the Pirate faction.
Hmmm. I wasn't aware of such a ruling. When I asked him about Lord Mycron a couple months ago via email, he quite clearly told me that multiple "second action" abilities *did* stack.
Actually, it's because of the way that Lord Mycron's ability is worded. It says that you can give a ship in your fleet 2 actions, not an extra action (like other extra action abilities). That's why you can't stack to instances of Lord Mycron's ability to get 3 actions.
But, you can stack extra action abilities on top of Lord Mycron's ability, as long as you use his ability first. So, you could give the Sea Dragon 2 actions, and then a 3rd action via a fleet admiral (roll a 6 to give any ship in your fleet another action).
Actually, it's because of the way that Lord Mycron's ability is worded. It says that you can give a ship in your fleet 2 actions, not an extra action (like other extra action abilities). That's why you can't stack to instances of Lord Mycron's ability to get 3 actions.
But, you can stack extra action abilities on top of Lord Mycron's ability, as long as you use his ability first. So, you could give the Sea Dragon 2 actions, and then a 3rd action via a fleet admiral (roll a 6 to give any ship in your fleet another action).
It's not that clear. Before the Lord Mycron ruling, it was possible to stack multiple "second" actions on the same ship. Or rather it was assumed that it was possible, and there just wasn't a specific ruling to forbid it. The fleet admirals all say "two actions" rather than a second action, and as far as I know the ruling used to be that you could use two fleet admiral abilties to stack actions even if a ship already had two actions that turn.
The St. Pierre fort also had a similar ability, but actually grants a "second action" rather that two actions or an extra action. Again, I don't recall if we ever had a ruling on whether St. Pierre stacks with a fleet admiral ability, but I think up until Lord Mycron, it was assumed to be allowed.
In any event, it looks like Woelf saw some potential for abuse in Lord Mycron and decided to shut it down with a very restrictive interpretation of his ability. So, another scratch in the win column for Game Balance.
I've looked at using a fleet admiral + reroller for a similar fleet, but the odds of getting three actions are only about 50% at best. I might have enough points to squeeze in Hermionie Gold (F&S version)... I haven't worked out what the odds would be for that.
Actually, it's because of the way that Lord Mycron's ability is worded. It says that you can give a ship in your fleet 2 actions, not an extra action (like other extra action abilities). That's why you can't stack to instances of Lord Mycron's ability to get 3 actions.
But, you can stack extra action abilities on top of Lord Mycron's ability, as long as you use his ability first. So, you could give the Sea Dragon 2 actions, and then a 3rd action via a fleet admiral (roll a 6 to give any ship in your fleet another action).
It's not that clear. Before the Lord Mycron ruling, it was possible to stack multiple "second" actions on the same ship. Or rather it was assumed that it was possible, and there just wasn't a specific ruling to forbid it. The fleet admirals all say "two actions" rather than a second action, and as far as I know the ruling used to be that you could use two fleet admiral abilties to stack actions even if a ship already had two actions that turn.
The St. Pierre fort also had a similar ability, but actually grants a "second action" rather that two actions or an extra action. Again, I don't recall if we ever had a ruling on whether St. Pierre stacks with a fleet admiral ability, but I think up until Lord Mycron, it was assumed to be allowed.
In any event, it looks like Woelf saw some potential for abuse in Lord Mycron and decided to shut it down with a very restrictive interpretation of his ability. So, another scratch in the win column for Game Balance.
I've looked at using a fleet admiral + reroller for a similar fleet, but the odds of getting three actions are only about 33% at best. I might have enough points to squeeze in Hermionie Gold (F&S version)... I think that ups the odds to about 50%, but I'm not sure if that would be effective enough.
Actually, it's because of the way that Lord Mycron's ability is worded. It says that you can give a ship in your fleet 2 actions, not an extra action (like other extra action abilities). That's why you can't stack to instances of Lord Mycron's ability to get 3 actions.
But, you can stack extra action abilities on top of Lord Mycron's ability, as long as you use his ability first. So, you could give the Sea Dragon 2 actions, and then a 3rd action via a fleet admiral (roll a 6 to give any ship in your fleet another action).
It's not that clear. Before the Lord Mycron ruling, it was possible to stack multiple "second" actions on the same ship. Or rather it was assumed that it was possible, and there just wasn't a specific ruling to forbid it. The fleet admirals all say "two actions" rather than a second action, and as far as I know the ruling used to be that you could use two fleet admiral abilties to stack actions even if a ship already had two actions that turn.
Hmm, good point. I never noticed that the wording of the fleet Admiral ability is almost the same as Lord Mycron, and using 2 Fleet Admirals to effect the same ship wont work.
I agree that Woelf probably changed the ruling to prevent abuse, although I have found a minor loophole. The UT "Elizabeth's Piece of Eight" allows for unlimited transfer of of Extra Actions (not Same Action Twice) to a Pirate ship. With the right fleet build, you can give a Pirate Sea Dragon, or in my case a Kraken, 2-3 actions per turn, which makes them pretty fearsome.
Miniature Trading
