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Return to Savage Shores -- Sneak Flashback #10! (Canoes)
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woelf
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Subject: Return to Savage Shores -- Sneak Flashback #10! (Canoes)   PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 9:51 pm Reply with quote

DISCLAIMER: If you work for or represent NECA/Wizkids and you feel that this in any way infringes upon your new game or future plans for associated games, please contact me and I will remove this and the previous postings immediately.
------------------------------------------------


We've now reached the end of the regular set (Special Edition items are still to come), and I've intentionally saved these for "last" because included here is a new ability that could have quite literally changed how people played the game; it's right up there with key game-changers like Forts, Events, and Lord Mycron. It may not even seem like much first glance, but the potential it contains is huge.






Tribal Chieftain & Native Canoes
RSS-018

French
Points: 9
Masts: X (Canoes)
Cargo: 1
Move: S+S
Cannons: 3S

Ability: Native Canoe. When this ship carries no cargo, she gets +S to her base move.



While nothing too fancy, the French get a very capable set of canoes that (when empty) are faster than any other canoes available. At only 9 points they're also on the low end when it comes to cost, so all-in-all they're a really deal.

--------------------------

Tribal Chieftain & Native Canoes
RSS-019

Pirate
Points: 11
Masts: X (Canoes)
Cargo: 1
Move: S+S
Cannons: 4S

Ability: Native Canoe. This ship can dock at an enemy home island and load one treasure. If able, she must leave on your next turn.


The home island raiding ability has appeared countless times over the course of the game, but only a rare few have been good enough to have much effect on the game. The potential payout rarely made up for the cost and effort of using them, so most fell into the category of being one of those "fun to use but not necessarily useful" gimmicks.

Not willing to give up on it quite yet, the Pirates make another try with it in a whole new way. Instead of a single ship that needs to hit a home island several times to steal a meaningful amount of gold, why not spread the ability around to several ships that can all hit the island at once? To make matters worse for you opponent, once the treasure is aboard these canoes there are very few ways to get it back because canoes can't be towed or captured.

-----------------------------

Now for the big one:


Tribal Chieftain & Native Canoes
RSS-017

England
Points: 12
Masts: X (Canoes)
Cargo: 1
Move: L+S
Cannons: 3S

Ability: Native Canoe. Give this ship a move action but do not move her. Instead, roll a d6. On a result of 5 or 6, you may repair one mast on ships within S of any native canoes.


Like I said above this may not seem like much at first, but think about it a bit, and consider the possibilities.

A few things to note:
1) Each canoe in the set can use this ability.
2) "Any canoe" means any canoe.
3) "Ships within S" does not specify ownership.
4) This repair is not a a repair action.

DISCUSS
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buckland

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Subject: Re: Return to Savage Shores -- Sneak Flashback #10! (Canoes   PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 10:51 pm Reply with quote

woelf wrote:

A few things to note:
1) Each canoe in the set can use this ability.
2) "Any canoe" means any canoe.
3) "Ships within S" does not specify ownership.
4) This repair is not a a repair action.


So....
1) You have five canoes, not just one in a set, so five chances?
2) If your using a mixed fleet with multiable canoes. No need to carry shipwrights for your gunships.
3) You can repair a ship that isn't yours?
4) You may give your ships a repair action as well as repairing from a canoe? Also, a single canoe may repair more than one ship? If within S of cause.
Is that right?
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volt
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Subject:    PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 12:48 am Reply with quote

Also, it doesn't specify that a ship can't be affected only once. You could surround your near sunk ship and repair it to full with one action.
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Subject: Re: Return to Savage Shores -- Sneak Flashback #10! (Canoes   PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 2:36 pm Reply with quote

woelf wrote:
On a result of 5 or 6, you may repair one mast on ships within S of any native canoes.


That's the part that got me-so you can repair every ship (hopefully they're all yours) within S of the canoe? That sounds wacky.
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lordstu

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Subject:    PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 3:45 pm Reply with quote

volt wrote:
Also, it doesn't specify that a ship can't be affected only once. You could surround your near sunk ship and repair it to full with one action.


I'm not sure about that, as it does specify ships "within S of any native canoes", a very deliberate use of the plural sense, I imagine - meaning, if a ship is within S of one or more canoes, it can have a single mast repaired that turn.

...Of course, I could easily be completely wrong about that.
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Subject:    PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 3:52 pm Reply with quote

So the ability allows each canoe separately rolls for the ability? So you may have 1-5 canoes give up their move actions as necessary to get this repair action? And this action could be triggered up to 5 times then, right?
Idea So here is my thoughts on the ability:
Hmm, 2 points for a shipwright? OR 12 points for a MEGA-Shipwright? (That can also run gold, but is based on chance)
-5 chances at a 1/3 probability? That’s decent odds of at least 2 masts per canoe.

-The running gold and repairing functions would require planning for both of them to work in the same game at peak levels. Maybe a player could run gold at first and then switch them to repairing duty before a battle/when needed. (This mostly applies to games with only the British canoes on a side)

-The canoes would need to placed properly to be within s of any ships that need to be repaired, but if each canoe gets a roll, that means that you could move a canoe or two into better positions and have any previously placed canoes roll the die since they don’t have to move.

-If there are any opposing canoes, it would be more beneficial to hunt them down to prevent that "any canoe" phrase from taking effect on accident. So opposing canoes would become a higher priority.

-The British Chieftain would definitely become a higher priority to hunt down. That way, they could only move one canoe at a time, limiting the canoes chances severely.

-Perhaps it would encourage opposing players to keep canoe #5 near a fight to curb its usage as opposing ships may get repaired (multiple times) as well.

-12 points is rather expensive in a 30/40-point game. These would be a lot better in larger games where there'd be more ships to repair.

-Fights may have been seen now with canoes along their edges, meaning one has to make the choice in a fight to attack opposing ships OR the (potentially) repairing canoes.

-This creates numerous canoe combos in higher point games. Imagine a game with two different chieftains on the same team. The British canoes are actually
running gold, but when a fight occurs, it’s the CURSED canoes that arrive on the scene with their offensive ability. Now the British canoes are sacrificing move actions to give the Cursed canoes the potential to repair ships, and the Cursed canoes can go on the offensive OR have their cargo eliminating ability work as a deterrent to attacking them.

-These thoughts apply to having ONE set of British canoes in a fleet. With more than one set, the odds would increase dramatically.

-My brother suggested the idea of copying the ability, which would be interesting possibility if that ship has nothing better to do for a turn, OR is surrounded by canoes and badly needs to be repaired. The odds are a lot less favorable though since they’d be at the 1/3 odds only.
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Subject:    PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 5:13 pm Reply with quote

lordstu wrote:
volt wrote:
Also, it doesn't specify that a ship can't be affected only once. You could surround your near sunk ship and repair it to full with one action.


I'm not sure about that, as it does specify ships "within S of any native canoes", a very deliberate use of the plural sense, I imagine - meaning, if a ship is within S of one or more canoes, it can have a single mast repaired that turn.

...Of course, I could easily be completely wrong about that.


Hrm, perhaps you are right about that... the plural certainly does seem out of place and therefore deliberate.

If you are right, then I find it more "wacky" then good, for reasons stated above.
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Subject:    PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 6:35 pm Reply with quote

notalwaysyou wrote:
So the ability allows each canoe separately rolls for the ability? So you may have 1-5 canoes give up their move actions as necessary to get this repair action? And this action could be triggered up to 5 times then, right?


That's probably right. I know I speculated earlier probably only one mast could be repaired per turn, regardless of the number of canoes in range, but it would more likely be one mast per successful canoe roll if any canoes are in range at that moment. So, it is feasible, however unlikely, that a ship could have five masts or more repaired in a single turn, if the die rolls go well. I think I'd rather be shooting my own cannons, though, if my rolls are going that well. Cool

Logically(to me, anyways), the next question then becomes whether or not a dice re-roller can get in on the action somehow, or maybe a crew that can roll two dice for each action? Maybe the copy ability will come in handy, after all? Idea
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lordstu

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Subject:    PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 6:42 pm Reply with quote

Hmmm, on another track, I wonder, if an opponent using the English canoes rolls a 5 or 6, can a canceler be used to negate the Native Canoe keyword of a canoe in range of one of his ships needing repair, thus preventing the repair from taking place?
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Subject: Re: Return to Savage Shores -- Sneak Flashback #10! (Canoes   PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 3:40 am Reply with quote

Had this set been released, the Pirate Code entry on the English canoes would have been extensive.

buckland wrote:

So....
1) You have five canoes, not just one in a set, so five chances?
Correct.
Quote:
2) If your using a mixed fleet with multiable canoes. No need to carry shipwrights for your gunships.
Correct - just as long as you can keep the canoes protected.
Quote:
3) You can repair a ship that isn't yours?
Correct. It may seem like a silly notion, but consider multiplayer games where two players could have an alliance of some sort.

It's also a potential counter for suicides on reefs or icebergs, if your opponent has only one ship left and wants to try to end the game before you can collect more gold.
Quote:
4) You may give your ships a repair action as well as repairing from a canoe? Also, a single canoe may repair more than one ship? If within S of cause.
Is that right?
There's no limit on how many ships a single canoe can repair at once. However, no matter how many different canoes are within S of it, each ship can be repaired only once per successful roll.

notalwaysyou wrote:
-If there are any opposing canoes, it would be more beneficial to hunt them down to prevent that "any canoe" phrase from taking effect on accident. So opposing canoes would become a higher priority.
You (the player making the rolls) gets to choose when and where the repairs happen, so you can't "accidentally" repair an opposing ship if it's next to a canoe.

That opposing canoe could repair one of your ships if it's within range when you make the roll, since ownership isn't specified.

Quote:
-My brother suggested the idea of copying the ability, which would be interesting possibility if that ship has nothing better to do for a turn, OR is surrounded by canoes and badly needs to be repaired. The odds are a lot less favorable though since they’d be at the 1/3 odds only.
Copying the ability does work since making the roll isn't specific to canoes - only the repairing part is. The copier will essentially just give you one extra attempt at the roll, in addition to however many of your canoes try it.
LordStu wrote:

Logically(to me, anyways), the next question then becomes whether or not a dice re-roller can get in on the action somehow, or maybe a crew that can roll two dice for each action? Maybe the copy ability will come in handy, after all? Idea
You can't do much to help the canoes themselves with the rolls, but your copier can certainly make use of roll modifiers.

Quote:
Hmmm, on another track, I wonder, if an opponent using the English canoes rolls a 5 or 6, can a canceler be used to negate the Native Canoe keyword of a canoe in range of one of his ships needing repair, thus preventing the repair from taking place?
You could cancel an individual canoe to prevent it from making the roll, but if some other canoe (out of range of the canceler) makes the roll you can't prevent other canoes from doing the repair because they're still considered native canoes even if you cancel their keyword.



Great discussion, but you're all still missing something really important. Something players have desperately wanted to do for a very long time, but could never quite find a way... Very Happy
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Subject: Re: Return to Savage Shores -- Sneak Flashback #10! (Canoes   PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 5:22 am Reply with quote

woelf wrote:

Great discussion, but you're all still missing something really important. Something players have desperately wanted to do for a very long time, but could never quite find a way... Very Happy

OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!

REPAIRING SEA MONSTERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Subject: Re: Return to Savage Shores -- Sneak Flashback #10! (Canoes   PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:27 am Reply with quote

shelob wrote:
woelf wrote:

Great discussion, but you're all still missing something really important. Something players have desperately wanted to do for a very long time, but could never quite find a way... Very Happy

OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!

REPAIRING SEA MONSTERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


lol... I realized it a bit too late. Because it is not considered a repair action, sea monsters can benefit. Very cool, but that ability totally should have been for the Cursed Canoes Wink
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Subject: Re: Return to Savage Shores -- Sneak Flashback #10! (Canoes   PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 12:50 pm Reply with quote

shelob wrote:
woelf wrote:

Great discussion, but you're all still missing something really important. Something players have desperately wanted to do for a very long time, but could never quite find a way... Very Happy

OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!

REPAIRING SEA MONSTERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There it is! Smile
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lordstu

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Subject:    PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 3:07 pm Reply with quote

Laughing Yeah, that's brilliant, give the ability to repair sea creatures to the nation that has exactly one of them(and not even a very good one, at that)... Rolling Eyes
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Subject:    PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 4:28 pm Reply with quote

Awesome job as always, Woelf!
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